mounting antennas on bullbars

Submitted: Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:05
ThreadID: 82234 Views:9940 Replies:9 FollowUps:4
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How close can a uhf and a mobile phone antenna be mounted on a bull bar without affecting each others signal. I only have one mounting hole on the top tube of the bull bar and I could make a short flat bar to mount to this point and attach the two antennas. I have now one mounted at this point and one on the driving lights bracket which I have read is not the best position.
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Reply By: Bazza - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:29

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:29
I have a UHF & phone antenna mounted exactly the way you propose. I have not had any issues with them and have not noticed any reduced performance on either sysyem.
Capt.
AnswerID: 434755

Follow Up By: hl - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:48

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:48
Ideally they should be separated about a wavelength for the UHF antenna (about 65cm).
In practice, it probably won't matter all that much if they're a bit closer, although the high power from your HF radio may cause some issues in the receiver of your UHF radio down the if they are really close.
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Reply By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:56

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:56
Hi Coot,
Always a problem with a multitude of antennas (antennae?) on a bull bar. Antennas mounted close together will work, but close proximity will reduce the performance of the antennas, as one element interacts with the other (this is what the extra elements are for on a yagi antenna). There is also a risk of power from one transmitter either damaging the other receiver or de-sensitising the receiver, though most modern receivers have adequate protection against damage.
Ideally the antennas should be at least 1/2 a wavelength away from each other taking the lower frequency as the measure. An easy calculator for wavelength is 300/f, where f is in MHz. Obviously, if you're using HF, then these distances are not achievable in practice.
The driving lights bracket is definitely not a good location if the bracket is below the top of the bull bar, as the whip has to radiate out from behind the bull bar and below the bonnet. And the tuning will be also affected. The best spot for VHF/UHF of course is the roof. Have you considered a mag base antenna?

cheers
Gerry


AnswerID: 434756

Reply By: Wilko - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 14:28

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 14:28
Hi Coot,

I've got mine about 5" apart and I dont notice any probs.

Cheers Wilko
AnswerID: 434764

Reply By: Coot - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 15:48

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 15:48
As I am not a radio man can someone tell me what frequencies UHF radios and mobile phones work on.
AnswerID: 434768

Follow Up By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 17:31

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 17:31
Hi Coot,
UHF CB is around 470MHz, mobile phones depends on who your provider is, but NextG is 850 MHz, the rest use 900, 1800 and 2100 Mhz (incl Telstra).
So a wavelength at 470Mhz is about 640mm.
As others have claimed, their systems work fine with close-mounted antennas, but in reality their performance will not be optimal.

cheers
Gerry
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FollowupID: 705879

Follow Up By: ob - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 19:35

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 19:35
Would it matter if you are only using one at a time?
Would one pick up the other seeing as their frequencies are so far apart or is it that this does not matter?

ob
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Follow Up By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 20:02

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 20:02
Hi ob,
It will still affect the performance, whether the second antenna is transmitting or not. Some of the transmitted signal will be absorbed into the adjoining receiver.

Basically, an antenna design, in part, depends on its surroundings. Add metallic bits close around it that weren't part of the design and they affect the performance, especially if the offending bit is around 1/4 wavelength or multiples of that. But any length, mounted close to the working antenna will affect it. And it will cause some transmitted power to be reflected back into the transmitter (usually with no damage). You may be able to tune out the affected VSWR (reflection), but the radiation pattern will still be affected.
This is used to good effect on yagi antennas (eg, TV antennas) where a slightly larger than 1/2 wavelength rod placed 1/4 wavelength behind the dipole (antenna) causes the signal to be reflected almost completely; ie no signal behind the reflecting rod. Similarly, slightly shorter rods placed in front of the dipole will enhance the signal, but narrow down the beam width and improve the gain. This is all part of careful design, otherwise you don't get the desired effect.
But conducting elements of random length and random spacing placed nearby will cause all sorts of unpredictable radiation patterns.
Hope this helps.
Here endeth the lesson....
Gerry


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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 17:01

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 17:01
My radio guru said to have them at least 600mm apart and said they should both be transmitting at the same time can cause problems.

I have the phone one on the far left of the bull bar and welded a plate in the centre for the UHF.

Was also told never to shorten or transmit with only a stub on the UHF or you may burn out the output side of the radio.

Dont ask me why but he installs Govt systems all over AU and New Guinea so I suppose he knows what hes on about.


AnswerID: 434780

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 18:37

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 18:37
I would suggest mounting one of the antenna on the mudguard close to the front windscreen.
There are specific brackets available to fix to the vehicle and have the bracket extending from the joint between the mudguard and bonnet.

This is where I have my UHF antenna mounted and it works fine.
The only better place in on the roof itself.

It amazes me why folk automatically choose the bullbar to mount their antennas.
It would have to be the worst spot and basically, a big white "wank" pole performs no better than a 900mm stainless steel antenna. As long as the top of the antenna is above the roof line, an independent ground plain antenna such as the RFI SW7 1/4 wave stainless steel whip antenna will perform as good as any.

I have seen several antennas broken due to vibrations from the bullbar, which is mounted to the chassis and thus has no additional shock absorption capability.

Mount one of the antenna to the bullbar is you must, but mount the other as suggested on either side of the mudguard, close to the front windscreen.


Bill.
Bill


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AnswerID: 434797

Reply By: Member - Marc Luther B (WA) - Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 18:38

Monday, Nov 01, 2010 at 18:38
Hi Coot

Might I suggest you think about sending a message to Stuart, a member of ExploreOz, as he is an AutoSparky by trade and I am sure he would be happy to advise.

Cheers
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AnswerID: 434799

Reply By: Ray - Tuesday, Nov 02, 2010 at 09:20

Tuesday, Nov 02, 2010 at 09:20
Do what I did, Get a "U" clamp and clamp it to the other side of the roo bar with a small metal plate bolted to it to take the additional antenna
AnswerID: 434834

Reply By: Coot - Tuesday, Nov 02, 2010 at 09:38

Tuesday, Nov 02, 2010 at 09:38
Thanks for all your explanations and suggestions.I will check things out to see which way I will do it.
AnswerID: 434837

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